Meeting in Miodowa Street

Translation


1972.

On 23rd, 24th and 25th of November, the Royal Shakespeare Company performed A Midsummer Night's Dream at the National Theatre in Warsaw, in Peter Brook's production. Students of the Polish Government Stage School (PWST) met members of the cast on 24th November.

WIESLAW GORSKI
(Interviewer)

We hope that during this interview we will be able to learn a lot about your theatre, your work, Peter Brook and a play you are now working on. First of all I would like to ask you about two aspects of your performance, the magic of circus and the magic of dream. Was it the actors' idea or Peter Brook's? I am particularly interested in the first rehearsal, when you were given a text, and decided to put this play on the stage.

PHILIP LOCKE

I think that the rest of our team will agree with me that working with Peter Brook means working in complete chaos. Really and truly during rehearsal nobody knew what it was all about. We began rehearsing Midsummer Night's Dream like this: when we entered the rehearsal room Peter Brook was waiting for us with all sorts of little objects, balls, sticks, plates. We were told to throw the balls and sticks to each other and juggle with the plates. Every day there was something new, but we were never told what it was for. Later on at least half of our exercises were never introduced into the play. Personally I felt that through the circus exercises Peter Brook wanted us to just stop being actors, and once again become conventiion-free human beings able to use their hands better than actors do. One of the first principles he taught from the start was that the actors and the setting of a play mustn't be pretentious. We are not pretending that Titania's bower is flying in the air. All the necessary machinery and the wires supporting her bower are visible.

WIESLAW GORSKI

How do you exercise your voice and speech?

BARRY STANTON

The Royal Shakespeare Company doesn't have any special vocal exercises. Preparing this production we didn't attend any special sessions of voice training. We have a teacher of elocution, but she doesn't spend more than three hours with us for each play. Sometimes you can get more than three hours with her, but you can't really call it proper training.

GEMMA JONES

There was a Japanese actor with us who sang with us in Japanese for an hour each day. This training was to strengthen our voices and their projection.*

BARRY STANTON

It's amazing how Brook can get out of actors sounds and behaviour that they would never accomplish by themselves. He achieves that by constantly searching for more and more expression than the actor is giving.

PAULINE MUNRO

Perhaps this way he's influenced by Grotowski.

WIESLAW GORSKI

How long does it take you to produce a play?

ALAN HOWARD

It depends....... Some plays take five or six weeks - Midsummer Night's Dream took eight.

WIESLAW GORSKI

Let's now discuss the characters in the play. Some of you are playing more than one role. For me The Dream is a dream of Theseus. How do you actors find yourselves in that dream? Which of you is influenced by a dream? Was it explained during the rehearsals that it is Theseus's dream?

ALAN HOWARD

No, it wasn't put like that, but the result comes out of itself. You can't tell for sure, as there are some moments when you know exactly, or so you think....the thread is so tangled and the structure so complicated it is almost impossible to ascertain whose dream it is. It's impossible to get the measure of it before the end of the play.

ROBERT LLOYD

I don't think anyone objects to what you said, although you don't present the whole picture. For example, you lost the dream of the audience.

ALAN HOWARD

Also analogies between characters in the play which in a way are one and the same personality, are lost. Theseus, Oberon and the lion** are simply one complex personality.

WIESLAW GORSKI

How would you compare working with Brook and other directors in the theatre?

ALAN HOWARD

There is simply no comparison at all.

GEMMA JONES

Brook is unique. Absolutely unrepeatable. Unfortunately there is no one like him.

BARRY STANTON

We have only a few very bad imitators.

WIESLAW GORSKI

Do you think that only British people can understand Shakespeare? Or have you perhaps seen any interesting interpretation of his plays somewhere in Europe?

ROBERT LLOYD

Although I didn't see it, I think that one of the best interpretations of Shakespeare was eight years ago in Czechoslovakia. That performance later influenced a London production. It's difficult to say where to look for inspiration, but England isn't the only country able to discover Shakespeare for a contemporary audience. Inspiration might come from any country.

GEMMA JONES

We are thinking of Shakespeare as our property, and that is really dangerous, because we stage his plays too often to do them the best possible way each time. I think that distant countries are in a better position. They have a real chance of discovering new ways, because they are not tempted to imitate past productions. I am afraid Shakespeare is going stale in my country.

WIESLAW GORSKI

Have you all finished at drama school? How did you get a part in this play?

GEMMA JONES

All of us have had different experience and different theatrical training. Some of us went to drama school, some of us didn't. In Britain we haven't got a state stage school.

BARRY STANTON

There are some private ones. Actually, a lot of them. You might finish drama school, but it doesn't give you anything, even work. Some schools give certificates. I haven't got one. An actor is completely on his own. Most of us had a very hard time at the start.

PHILIP LOCKE

Five of us are in this play because we already belonged to the Royal Shakespeare Company.

ROBERT LLOYD

But the cast was chosen not only from the members of the company but from all British actors. Some of us, for instance, myself, have a part in the play because we worked with Brook in Paris.

PHILIP LOCKE

I should like to add something about Brook that your students might find interesting. He always listens to criticisms of his production, even if it is from someone on the technical staff or a charwoman. He listens to everybody with new ideas.

BARRY STANTON

And he is always ready to give it a try, providing it isn't an outrageous idea. Only then does he decide whether to introduce it into the performance. He never says "It's a good idea, let's sleep on it....." only "Let's do it and see how it works."

ROBERT LLOYD

And he has the same attitude towards his actors. He treats them like human beings and encourages them to experiment with the text. He doesn't give any particular instruction or keep on saying "I think you'll be able to make something really interesting....." Everything depends on us, and he is always there to help us.

WIESLAW GORSKI

This question is in connection with the most recent work of Brook. Can you tell us about his idea of a universal language which will enable the understanding of theatre in all parts of the world? Perhaps, Mr. Lloyd, you would like to tell us about it, as you worked on this idea with Brook in Paris.

ROBERT LLOYD

Indeed, we experimented in Paris, if only to see how it would work. Brook decided that the best group to try our experiments on would be children in the 8 - 11 age group. They can think independently and do not imitate adults. We gave three performances for them, or rather for ourselves, because we wanted to see their reactions.
Then we went to a Persian village, hoping that the children out there had never been to a theatre before. Actually, some of them had been to a cinema. We performed for village children and adults, just to see if a universal language understood by 10 - 80 year-olds exists. After all we have something in common, belonging to the human race.
We also experimented with a special form of expression where only the spoken word was important. To follow this experiment, we had to study Classical Greek and the liturgical Persian language as well as other difficult languages like Spanish and Latin. All these languages were essential to our experiments which we couldn't carry on in English.

PAULINE MUNRO

We also experimented with the language created by the English poet, Ted Hughes. This was an unsuccessful but interesting experiment. Strangely enough, people who are not used to theatre didn't mind not understanding a single word. And they responded to the spectacle as we intended. But "The Times" critic was completely discouraged by not understanding the text of the play. We couldn't get through to him. And this is the subject of Brook's experimentation. People are always afraid of new things. They need their own language to understand the situation. They don't understand the real meaning of the unspoken sound. I realise how difficult it is, and I think that's why Peter intends to travel to Africa, to experiment with people who understand through their senses.
He needs primitive people. They will help him to grasp the idea of ancient tragedy. Greek theatre was not only entertainment, it possessed a special magic which opened the human subconscious.

WIESLAW GORSKI

We were talking about your freedom to introduce your own ideas during rehearsals. What happens after the first night performance? For example, Brook isn't with you. Does the person in charge see to it that you perform it the same way as the first night, or is the decision how to present it yours?

BARRY STANTON

Brook doesn't want us to reproduce the first night performance exactly. All the time bits are added or changed. Rehearsals are only the beginning. The real development of the play happens every night. We are making it richer.

PHILIP LOCKE

Or poorer..

GEMMA JONES

After five weeks of rehearsals we were very tired. Immediately after the première Brook said, "Alright! And now we start working."

ROBERT LLOYD

According to Peter Brook nothing stands still. Things can only get better or worse.

GEMMA JONES

After the first night, the actors themselves are responsible for the play. We can perform it as we like.

WIESLAW GORSKI

You are performing in various countries. Does it affect your acting?

PHILIP LLOYD
[sic]

It certainly does. In Roumania the audience didn't understand any English, and didn't laugh......

BARRY STANTON

Peter asked us "What happens if the audience doesn't laugh?" Reply: "Oh, then us actors start laughing." And it really happens.

WIESLAW GORSKI

How are the Polish audiences?

PAULINE MUNRO

Excellent. We came here from Finland, where in spite of an appreciation, reactions were restrained. There is an immense difference between Poland and Finland.

WIESLAW GORSKI

We know that some of your actors are playing two characters in the same play. Like Theseus and Oberon, for instance. Was this your idea or Brook's, and when was it decided to use this technique?

ALAN HOWARD

This idea was integral from the start. It was altered, added to and taken away from, but it came and was accepted as a natural result of persistent rehearsal.
The second question is very difficult. The way that Brook works creates situations in which nothing is certain. Sometimes we do not see the point of doing something, and I think that at times Brook himself is probably lost. Therefore he urges us to keep experimenting and suddenly we realise exactly what we are looking for........But the next moment we might be lost again, or come to different conclusions, and the searching starts again from scratch.

WIESLAW GORSKI

Was the concept of the identification of Oberon with Theseus Brook's idea, or was it born during your rehearsals?

ALAN HOWARD

It was Brook's idea, he had it long before we started rehearsing.

PHILIP LOCKE

I would like to add something. If the Royal Shakespeare Company comes to Warsaw again, would PWST ask your ministry to give its approval for a few performances specially for students and young people. During our tour, in many countries, teenagers couldn't get tickets. We have been asked to do extra performances, but unfortunately we were too tired to be able to do that.

Translated from the English by Ilona Kowalik
Re-translated from the Polish by I. Chmielowiec.

(M.H.)

* Gemma Jones joined the cast later, taking over from Sara Kestelman, the original Titania. The Japanese actor was used in the new rehearsal run up to the play, not the original. In this interview, actors who had been part of the production from the beginning were: Philip Locke, Barry Stanton and Alan Howard. For an excellent insight into the rehearsal process, David Selbourne's The Making of A Midsummer Night's Dream is well worth reading.

** Alan Howard talked in more detail about the connections between Oberon/Theseus and the lion in MSND at the Drama Desk, printed in Peter Brook's Production of William Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, Authorised Acting Edition, Edited by Glenn Loney, published by The Royal Shakespeare Company and The Dramatic Publishing Company, 1974.

 

Playing Shakespeare/Dream